This new genealogists the think it over extreme one Nicholas’ partner Clementia are included here because the, not as much as typical circumstances, she’d never be stated. When Susanna at particular later go out gotten off to a different sort of protector, brand new spouse of these protector wasn’t stated.

This should indicate that King John spent a little while truth be told there and the potential for a keen amorous liaison with Clementia is present

What follows here’s a principle complex because of the particular eminent genealogists, but it’s fair to state that the conclusions are hotly competitive!

It concept contributes gjГёr Ukrainsk kvinner med amerikanske menn to a wonderful and interested ‘twist’ throughout the story out-of Joanna, which may desire fans away from HBD!

At first glance, there would be nothing to recommend people connection involving the hostage, Susanna of Wales and you can Clementia, wife out-of Nicholas de- Verdun. However, sensation of particular genealogists with overseas hostages, such as for instance youths, could have been which they was in fact tend to place having family members, or no was indeed readily available.

Bouncing toward 1236, there is certainly an entrance about Tewkesbury annals and this applies to Joanna’s mom because the “Queen Clemencie!” They reads in part:

Now, we know that the mom from Joanna try called Clementia (Clemence?

In cases like this the brand new monk was plainly indulging in gothic legalism. Prior to their particular dying, Joanna had been legitimised by Pope. Based on one to legitimisation, this new Tewksbury monk evidently took they on themselves to elevate Joanna’s mother with the standing off King, since if their unique mother got King John’s wife! It is a fact yet not, one Queen John and Clementia was in fact never partnered. By speaking about Joanna’s mommy given that “Queen” Clementia, the latest monk whom filed Joanna’s demise is actually appearing his significant esteem to own Joanna, but not wanting to replace the real issues.

As for the identity away from Clementia de Verdun, Paget suggests that she was the child out-of Roger de Dauntsey, from Wiltshire. You to genealogist takes into account it tall that Clementia regarded regarding Wiltshire given that he has realized that Queen John had an effective connection so you can you to state, it as being the house of their best allies, the newest Longespee, ilies and you will Geoffrey Fitz Peter.

Genealogists found your title ‘Clementia’ are really rare among English noblewomen for the months. In one single table out-of ladies brands which was collected, there were only one or two occurrences of your own name “Clementia” off all in all, 1407 ladies in new shot! The truth that individuals entitled Clementia might be of this Susanna is recognized as tall.

Very! The data was effective, not definitive, one for the 1228, Susanna, since the an excellent hostage, was given over to the latest proper care of her maternal grandmother, now wife from Nicholas de Verdun!!

The latest Scottish genealogists of MacDuffs’ keep you to Susanna ferch Llywelyn was born 1214 for the Gwynnedd, Wales and you may died c. 1259 during the Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland. She hitched Malcolm MacDuff, Earl out-of Fife when you look at the 1230 together with several children: Sir Colbran MacDuff, Earl from Fife, born 1245, passed away 1270 and MacDuff MacDuff created 1247.

However, you will find counter objections to all the that it conjecture! King John got of many mistresses and maybe as many as seven illegitimate pupils. The mother out-of Joanna would-have-been produced circa 1172 and you will marriageable circa 1184. Joanna herself came to be circa 1191 (14 years old during their particular relationships so you’re able to Llywelyn). Rohese, this new known legitimate daughter off Nicholas de- Verdun with his spouse Clementia was created circa 1210-1213. In the event that Clementia are the mother out of Joanna, she would are located in their unique late 30’s, early 40’s whenever pregnancy to Rohese! Maybe not impossible, particular say, however, unlikely.